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rFactor 2 Stuttering, Tearing and GPU questions


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#1 lopsided

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:40 AM

Like Catapult I was considering a new video card after rf2 version 134 was released. With it I got my first taste of micro-stuttering (minor pauses) and some tearing. Some people told me I needed a new card (one person even recommended 3, lol) but again, first build I've had these issues with and I've not upped my settings. So I did some test and I want to know if I'm correct in my thinking because I'm honestly just guessing and would  like to understand things better.

 

I monitored the CPU and memory usage as well as the GPU and memory usage. (Afterburner/Task Manager)

Here's what I got:

CPU 25% usage (I have an i7 2600k)

System memory usage 35% (I've got 8gb)

GPU 35-45% load avg. 50% max (It's a 6950 2gb card, 840mhz)

GPU memory usage 483mb (out of 2 gb)

 

Having never oc'd the card I decided to take it up to the max allowed in CCC. Zero difference in performance so I felt the additional heat was unwarranted. Without overclocking my card runs between 45 and 55 c.

 

To me, the numbers suggest that the stuttering and tearing is not because I'm underpowered and overtaxing my system.?? (I know I'm underpowered as far as being able to max everything as that has always been evident by lower fps, but that's not what I'm talking about here, I have adjusted those settings accordingly (shadows, AA etc.)

 

At first I kept reading people suggest that everyone needs a new card, which I am more than happy to do, however, many threads at ISI suggest even those with the newer GTX680's and multiple GPU's have encountered these issues (stuttering/tearing) which has given me reason to pause. 

 

I was able to resolve the tearing by using VSYNC:Video. No other setting would resolve it, but the stuttering remains. I find myself believing it's the game (it is unfinished after all) or the drivers or something else causing these issues and I've hesitated to desert my GPU so quickly.



#2 SUPERNOVADAVE

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:42 AM

Hi

with your computer specs you should run rfactor just fine.

you are correct in using vertical sync as this will match the fps to the monitor refresh rate ( too many fps is not a good thing and the human eye can not process more than 60 any way.).

as for stuttering there are several things that can cause this - it could be because you have too many proccesses running at the same time on your computer. to verify this run (msconfig)and make sure the system is set to ( selective start up) not normal start up and select the startup tab - then uncheck any programs that are not neccessary to run when windows boots up.

if this is ok then it could be your internet connection is not fast enough - you should have at least a10 meg connection


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#3 lucid26

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:52 AM

All my games run online very well with 2meg download speed...



#4 lopsided

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:53 AM

Hi Dave, Good thought about processes and one I thought about but I use a process killer simply to prevent issues when racing online. Again, this is new to build 134, that is the only factor that has changed.

It isn't connection speed and those are my wireless set up, the gaming computer is hardwired.

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#5 vegashipster

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:54 AM

Tearing is an artifact of 60HZ screen refresh on flat panel monitors (led/florescent).

you can fix this either by buying new monitors that support 120HZ ( Expensive ) (plasma will work also)

Or, you can just use Vsync.

 

Stuttering:

I would need to know more about this.

Stuttering for 'me' has been caused by the mother board supporting turbo mode or speedstep.

the game would run fine in a racing game for about 100yds and then blip/stutter.

I have had this in the past a lot and it took a while to figure it out.

what happended to me was I replace the guts of my computer and still had the problem, then it hit me that is was more of a CPU not a GPU problem and I just tried different settings.

 

The above is also a CHEAT.  I you have turbo mode on OLDER motherboards and you enable it, i was 3 -5 seconds faster than everyone in simbin race sims (GTR, GTL etcetera). but the blip was anyoing and did i mention cheating. It also messes up FPS games with lag.

 

I currenty am running RF2, PCars, iRacing etcetera, with 3 screens and I am not getting any stuttering, just tearing, but the tearing is not bad.

again, due to vsync not being enabled..

 

I run 3 27' monitors

I have one Nvidia 680GTX and I just put up with the tearing, and turn off vsync.

I previously had two 460GTX running in SLI.  (I have been running single and sli cards for years)

Dual SLI cards can be a pain everyonce in a while (if you want to know just ask)

I have played every true racing game from Indy 500 (running in CGA) on up. (ok, accolade games werent that simmy)

 

when I first installed my 680, At limerock in iRacing with the skippy, I got 390FPS (yes 390)

I soon started enabling more detail and it doesn't drop below 120fps the way I have it setup

Now, Spa in iRacing 90FPS - 140FPS depends on where you are on the track

RF2 - 50FPS - 60FPS +/- (monaco)  60FPS - 140FPS (Spa)

Pcars - 38fps - 68FPS +/- (Standard mode) DX11 mode - 5 FPS and not as clear.

 

I probably ran on a bit much and offered too much detiail, but I hope it helps



#6 U.N.K.L.E

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

Tearing is an artifact of 60HZ screen refresh on flat panel monitors 

 

Not if you connect via display port. I have a 7970 hooked up to three 60Hz monitors, two are connected via display port and one via DVI and I only ever see tearing in the one using DVi.

 

On triples using mixed video outputs the AMD cards are notorious for tearing issues and it isn't the typical tearing that you might see on a console (where the tearing lines move up and down the screen) but a permanent fixed tearing line somewhere on the screen.

 

I've read that the newer more expensive AMD cards with three or more display ports will eliminate the tearing completely.  If you use mixed video outputs I found I was able to virtually eliminate the tearing in CCC by changing the primary monitor settings to whichever one gives you the better results.

 

The micro stuttering is a symptom I believe of the drivers, installing the latest CCC 13.1 drivers should see a big performance improvement.  Certainly when I installed the beta drivers which are now the 13.1 drivers it virtually eliminated the micro stuttering for me in iRacing and PCars which was previously forcing me to switch on v-sync, but now I've got it switched off.

 

Regarding V-Sync it is a good fail safe in my opinion that will in the majority of times ensure framerate smoothness, especially on 60hz monitors.  You do occasionally see some frame skipping with it switched on and some experience input lag which is why it gets slightly demonized in these circles.



#7 Darin Gangi

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:47 PM

I wouldn't do anything to upgrade your system for rF2. It's still in Beta and always changing. Not sure about graphics optimization at this point either. 

 

Something I found with iRacing and running NVidia cards.. I have 2 - 580s and just did a format recently. I installed the most current driver but was getting stuttering. I changed to a driver that was made more for the 580 series (296.10) and it made a world of difference. You may want to try a driver roll back to something that was developed for the generation of card you have. 



#8 Johnny Carr

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

What's your opinion on Vsync Darin?



#9 CaTaPulT

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:54 PM

Vsync...... hmmmm, a place where a virgin washes her hands? LOL :shock:

 

Actually, I don't think I updated rFactor-2 to the latest build yet, I know with previous builds, the game was starting to tax my 5850 some, it still ran decent but the odd hickup here and there.

I figured on getting a new card for when rFactor-2 makes it out of beta and into the mainstream not to mention other titles on their way down the pike. Besides, I think I just wanted it! LOL

Take care

 

Regards:  >>>> Jack <<<<


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#10 lopsided

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 10:50 PM

Help me understand this ... :???:

 

Ok, so, forget about tweaking rf2, it's on the shelf for the time being... help me understand what those results mean, because to my novice eye I'm thinking that it is telling me that rf2 is not over-taxing my machine. It's not hitting the max. usage of the GPU or it's memory, and the CPU usage and memory are quite low.(see above post) But I don't know  if that is the correct interpretation. Help.



#11 steakastig

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 08:22 PM

From what I get form the system usage info you have provided is that the game really isn't over taxing your computer, as for the micro stuttering I can only see it being the game it self since that is the only thing that has changed really, I believe some new AMD GPU drivers came out this past week (13.2 WHQL I think it was) so maybe give them a try if you haven't already, I'v also been looking the screen tearing with triple's on AMD cards recently too and from what I'v gathered is that the culprit is the mixed connection types (HDMI+DVI+DP) running at slightly different frequency's, the best work around is to find a GPU that lets you run each screen on the same type of connection, a good example of one of those cards would be the ASUS 7970 DirectCU II TOP cards that have 4 DP ports, their are other work around's iv heard about as well to cure this issue while using mixed inputs like changing your primary screen and using specific ports for the set up along with Vsync and Triple Buffering, the details of it all I can't remember but a Google search should help.

 

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#12 lopsided

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:16 AM

Hey Stiggy, Thanks again for your input.

I got those drivers installed Friday night and gave it a good test Saturday (saw the new driver post on ISI). Amazingly (thankfully!) the stutter/choppy frames are gone and this time zero tearing with NO V-sync of any kind enabled. Yeah!! I'm also getting between 90-120 fps again (had dropped to about 45fps). As I had mentioned in my post, rf2 was the only game giving me any kind of issues. 

Fortunately I have not encountered the mixed connection issues you describe. I use 2 DVI + a mini-DP w/ active adapter. I've never had an issue with tearing in any games and this had been an issue only with rf2 in the 134 build. So hopefully it's gone for good.

 

Some observations after updating the driver though...

Q: All my games now show 100% gpu usage. I *think* that's normal????

I also realized that rf2 is using around 1.5gb's VRAM but F1 2012 in that rain is using all 2 gb's VRAM and probably wanting more. So I decided it was wise to plan on a 4gb Vram GPU as this is a triple screen monitor. 

 

Funny how I can run F1 2012 with all the eye candy at High (one step below the highest/Ultra setting) and still get 60 fps with this card but rf2 details must be tuned down but I contribute that to it's work in progress status. Hopefully the card I'm eyeing, this GTX 670 4gb will permit me to increase the detail and shadows.



#13 steakastig

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:32 PM

Glad to hear the new drivers have really helped you out :).

 

As for your question, if your not using Vsync the 100% GPU usage is normal since the GPU would be working flat out putting out as many FPS as it can all the time rather than just what your monitors can take.

 

As for that GPU your eyeing up I personally think you would be wasting your money a bit getting it, granted the extra Vram would be helpful but Codemasters games typically favor AMD GPU's and although the 670 is newer I don't think you would get much more performance, assuming you have a AMD 6950 if I remember correctly, especially since Nvidia cards can now handle 3 screens on one card they are still not that great for it compared to the AMD cards, if you can wait a few months or so the next gen graphics cards will start surfacing and they would bring better performance too

 

Stiggy


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#14 lopsided

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

I will ask the guys over at ISI what level of details they are able to use with rf2 with their newer cards as mine are set so low now. I definitely don't want to do a *baby step* upgrade and $500 is about all I want to spend on a gpu. I may have to wait, I'm not sure yet.

 

As for AMD cards & Codemasters.... F1 2012 is definitely not my focus here, merely an observation as to the VRAM it required. 

I play it in the off season as I await March 15th. lol Eye candy!!

All my league races are rf1 & rf2 and since I'm well equipped for rf1, the upgrade is directed at rfactor 2 performance.

Thanks Stiggy!



#15 steakastig

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:21 AM

I think you will get more performance out of your current card with RF2 the closer it gets to launch as it will still be work in progress and the software still wont be optimized, once all the features have been added and they are happy with what they got as a product, they will start with optimization and you will start to see big performance gains with current hardware, and once RF2 has been released officially AMD and Nvidia will be able to start optimizing drivers for the game as well bringing further performance gains, personally I'd hold off on the hardware upgrade for now for RF and RF2 untill RF2 is out properly, but if you can't wait that long look at a 7950 or possibly a 8950 if they are released at the time of you upgrading

 

Stiggy


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#16 U.N.K.L.E

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

Yep the latest CCC driver updates are great, there's a big improvement in performance I've found.



#17 kemo

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 07:00 PM

Hi

with your computer specs you should run rfactor just fine.

you are correct in using vertical sync as this will match the fps to the monitor refresh rate ( too many fps is not a good thing and the human eye can not process more than 60 any way.).

as for stuttering there are several things that can cause this - it could be because you have too many proccesses running at the same time on your computer. to verify this run (msconfig)and make sure the system is set to ( selective start up) not normal start up and select the startup tab - then uncheck any programs that are not neccessary to run when windows boots up.

if this is ok then it could be your internet connection is not fast enough - you should have at least a10 meg connection

 

all vsync did when I had rfactor 2 was cause a massive lag on input peripherals, along with stuttering.  Turning that off greatly improved the performance, however, the input lag was still unbearable. 

 

Just my experience



#18 steakastig

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:30 AM

all vsync did when I had rfactor 2 was cause a massive lag on input peripherals, along with stuttering.  Turning that off greatly improved the performance, however, the input lag was still unbearable. 

 

Just my experience

 

Did you have Triple Buffering enabled in the game or CCC or Nvidia Control Center? that would greatly reduce and almost eliminate the input lag

 

Stiggy


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#19 Simon_EX01

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:51 AM

DX9

 

DX9 doesnt use a GPU like DX11 and relies on the CPU more, really poor choice by ISI to keep development cost down.

 

Modding community is drifting away as ISI drag their feet, and some amazing DX11 titles coming out before RFactor2 will ever see the light of day.

Unless ISI do something major soon its a dead duck.

 

 

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#20 CaTaPulT

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:39 AM

I'd have to agree with Simon.

As ISI takes their time, other titles are coming out that will make rFactor-2 redundant and old school when it's finally released.

The only thing the rFactor franchise has going for it is a great modding community, loose that and rFactor-2 looses a LOT of appeal.

Take care

 

Regards:  >>>> Jack <<<<


Follow your dreams.... just not the one about being naked at work. :smile:




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